The Copenhagen Post

Thursday
September 2nd
Banner
Front page News Politics Obligatory language tests for foreigners to cost 3000 kr

Obligatory language tests for foreigners to cost 3000 kr

E-mail Print

Foreigners could be charged 3000 kroner for a mandatory Danish language test from next year

Foreigners seeking residency through family reunification may be required to cough up 3000 kroner for a new mandatory Danish language test, reports Kristeligt Dagblad newspaper.

The ‘Immigration Test’ has been in the works since 2006 with several trial tests and reviews being conducted. It will also be mandatory for all religious preachers seeking residency here.

According to the government’s new budget proposal the final version will be ready form early next year.

In addition to testing language skills, the exam also requires a residency applicant to know facts about Danish culture and society.

Although it has not yet been ratified by parliament, the Liberal-Conservative government’s proposal reportedly has the support of the Danish People’s Party, which is enough to pass it into law.

Marianne Jelved, the Social Liberal integration spokeswoman, was baffled by the cost of taking the test and said her party did not support such immigration procedures.

‘For us it’s more important that Danish residents can live here with their spouses and children,’ she said.

Henriette Kjær, the Conservative immigration spokeswoman, said the test was unlikely to be difficult, rather like mastering ‘tourist Danish’.

But Danish People’s Party MP Jesper Langballe said if the test could cut down the number of immigrants coming to Denmark, then it would serve its purpose.

‘We wouldn’t be sorry if it meant the number of applicants fell,’ he said.

Spouses of Danish citizens who come to Denmark after living in another EU country will be exempt from taking the test.

Comments
Only CPHPOST registered users can write comments!
tomnashdk  - I cannot stop laughing at the irony...   |2009-08-26 11:04:45
My fellow foreign colleagues and I were JUST asked within the last three days to fill out a rather extensive survey from a polling firm, a poll on behalf of a Danish business association, about why foreigners do not stay and work in Denmark. This survey went to foreign employees of many different firms. The basic question was in so many words, "Please tell us why you feel so unwelcome here..."

Du-uh! Come on Danish people, are you that damned clueless that you cannot figure this out?
JFD   |2009-08-26 14:15:24
I actually think this is a good idea, to an extent.

One of the main reasons Danish culture is getting diluted is because of the flexibility of the family reunification laws. If this tightens these up, then all-the-better.

Keep in mind that this idea is only for Family Reunification and not other means of getting an opholdstilladelse. For example, if a "highly-skilled foreign worker" gets a job contract prior to coming to DK, then the test is not required.

Regardless, despite the proven fact that Danish is a harder language to learn than most others in the Europe (source: wikipedia), it is still the official language of the land and we foreigner ought to learn it.

Although I wonder how it will work in practicality. When I was living in the US, I lived in a metropolitan area of 6+ million people with over 25 universities. Not one of them nor any reputable language school offered Danish. It was considered a speciality and therefore would cost double as much as other standard courses. So, if a person wants to come to DK under family reunification. How the heck are they going to learn Danish well enough to pass a test, let alone pay for it?

It also pisses me off that with all the cultural connections to DK the US has and the fact that there are so many Danes living in the US/North America, why are just EU spouses exempt? Let's face it, this is a not-so-well-dressed ploy by DF to reduce the number of muslims immigrants (Fine with me), so why not exempt North Americans too?
magic1964   |2009-08-26 14:50:32
It´s the same and the same story.......the good ones have to pay for the bad ones...
If things are getting tougher for ALL immigrants its because SOME immigrants are abusing the Danish welfare society and on the top of that are disgratefull to Denmark..
wor  - Impact on Danish culture?   |2009-08-26 16:12:26
I'm not stating that I agree or disagree with the family reunification laws, but I faill to understand how the flexibility of family reunification laws can be one of the main causes of dilution regarding Danish culture.

Please explain, JFD. It would help my understanding.

I ask simply because, bearing in mind that there is no significant mixing between majority and non-majority cultures in Denmark, I fail to see how the majority Danish culture could be influenced by the non-majority culture of those seeking family reunification.

Possibly, the influence of non-Danish TV programs would be a more significant influence on Dansih culture. Monty Python, anyone?...I'd like to by a fish licence :-)
tom1980  - that's hilarious tomnashdk!   |2009-08-26 15:45:11
Foreigners leave Denmark for exactly the same reasons that Danes escape to Sweden!

In Sweden they can afford a nice car, a house and they can pay less taxes, escape from Jante law!
AG  - *splutter*   |2009-08-26 16:38:43
You know, JFD, not all of us here on family unification are those nasty dirty foreigners that you are so keen to keep out of Denmark. Oh, wait that's right, you wanted to make sure that North Americans are exempt too! Keep Denmark white, right? Europeans and North Americans, but oh laws a mercy, keep the South Americans, Africans, Asians, and Pacific Islanders out!! Well, plenty of "real" Danes marry foreigners from all sorts of places and would like to bring their spouses back to Denmark. This will affect them just as much as the unwanted "darkies." Mayhaps from now on Danes who love foreigners will just have to go live elsewhere. Thank god Mary and Marie got through already, I'd hate to think Denmark would loose it's heirs to the throne over it! Wait, won't they dilute Danish culture too? Crap, it's a total Kobayashi Maru!! Better make sure Mary doesn't light up the barbie and Marie knows better than to eat the wrong sort of cheese!

As a person here on a FU visa, I can tell you, I am already required to learn Danish and they check up on me to make sure I'm learning it fast enough for the state. All of us FUs are doing our best to learn a difficult language and pass our tests in the accepted amount of time. Many have to pay for the classes they are required by law to take because they didn't qualify for state help. We all face deportation because we made the stupid mistake of marrying a Dane! And applying for FU instead of "highly skilled worker" permits! And without first learning Danish and mastering the culture! How dare we! Asking us to pay 3000 kr. to take another test adds insult to injury.
magic1964   |2009-08-26 16:41:10
The problem is about people who pay to sustain the welfare and people who use and abuse the welfare....when too many people of a defined community leave at the expense of another community then we start the problems...
pingdk   |2009-08-26 20:13:13
So is this a new test or is this the existing PD3 test? If it's the existing test, I can see the end of the Danish language in sight. Trust me, those of here with a Danish spouse are trying to learn the darn language but most will admit they are learning it because they are required to do so. The only thing adding a fee would accomplish is less actually getting around to learning it and taking the official test!
JFD   |2009-08-27 11:05:46
Wor:
Most of my Danish in-laws & some of my Danish friends have expressed their frustration with FU flexibility as such: Many years ago (70s or 80s) there was a period where low cost labor was needed and many came from Muslims lands for temporary work. Eventually they stayed and were granted citizenship, however did not adopt Danish culture nor the language. Then they used the FU laws to bring in their entire families, who also became notorious for failing to adopt Danish culture but making the most of the welfare state. So, what started as a program to recruit individuals (key word) for low cost labor morphed exponentially. Now we have entire Muslim families milking the system (fuel in-part by enormous tax bill from "highly skilled foreign labor) and perhaps only the 2nd generation had blended in culturally. Hence, my original premise: flexibility in FU law is one of the main reasons (note people: "reasons" - plural) Danish culture is getting diluted.
You and Dame stated movies, TV, music, etc as another. Fair enough.
If I had heard this theory once I would have dismissed, but I have heard it multiple time from unrelated people and experienced it myself after having been here for almost 2 years. Keep in mind that FU is not as simple as Danes who marry foreigners being allowed to bringing them to DK. If it were that simple we wouldn't have this article nor this debate at all.

AG:
Mary, barbie; Marie cheese. What the hell are you talking about? If you think the royal family is indicative of normal Danish culture and has any logical connection to FU laws then try again. Very poetic, but not the least bit applicable. In re to your learning Danish, sorry, no sympathy for ya there. You should have done what I did and started to learn before you got engaged to your Danish spouse, but too late for that. I did so I could build a relationship with my future in-laws and be prepared for a future move here. I have never once been treated badly as a foreigner by Danish family, friends or strangers because I made an effort before I got here to adjust culturally. So, don't bitch to me about your failure to plan ahead. Held og Lykke med Sprogskole!
PS: watch the racial epithets, quotes or no quotes, people find them offensive and they are not becoming of an intelligent debate.

Dame:
Thanks for the 1st grade geography lesson; very enlightening. See my previous comment to Wor in re to culture dilution, but other than this I'll be happy to agree to disagree with you as always. But, let me present a different view on US & Danish cultural connections that span beyond families and across both societies as a whole:

1. Both countries predominate faith is Christian, therefore we celebrate the same religious holidays, values, educational upbringing, etc
2. The Danish Constitution’s civil rights that are cherished so much by Danes are based on the US Bill of Rights.
3. Both the US & Denmark value and thrive to be knowledge-based societies
4. Political ties between both countries are extremely strong and shouldn’t require further explanation.
5. Heritage - Mass Danish immigration (generally from the 1820-1850) has led to it being generally accepted that there are more people of Danish descent in the US than the entire population of DK now. (I'll be bet there are more Hansens, Olesens, etc in the phone books of Michigan, Wisconsin & Montana than all of DK) The Danish flag even flies in Alamo in my home town of San Antonio Texas because a Dane died there.
Need more? Wait here’s one more that you yourself suggested: Danes & Americans like the same “music, films, television programmes…”

Ergo, with such strong cultural connections why should Americans not share the same exemptions as EU residents?
JFD   |2009-08-27 12:15:54
Dame, Dame, Dame:

I presented a logical topic/hypothesis for discussion, and then backed it up valid and historically accurate reasons to support my position. I also respectfully stated to you "I'll be happy to agree to disagree with you"

And your response is:
"If you can't handle the fact that Americans don't qualify for kid-glove treatment and exceptions to rules in this part of the world, go home"

A good reminder to avoid intellectual debates with you in the future.
tom1980   |2009-08-27 12:44:18
Cultural similarities between the US and Denmark?

There's a grand canyon between them.
tomnashdk  - cultural differences notwithstanding...   |2009-08-27 14:52:29
"Out damned foreigners, out!"

Fact: Moving forward, Denmark needs foreigners if it is to survive economically in anything resembling its present form in the future. Sorry, but that is not subject to interpretation, it is solid fact and well-recognized by Denmark's business leaders. That is why they are taking surveys to figure out how to keep us in Denmark.

Fact: It takes concessions on both sides in order to successfully integrate foreigners. We will not become Danish. I repeat, we are not and will never become Danish. Deal with it. We will respect you and you land, but we will never become one of you for many reasons that you had better learn to respect. That is equally part of foreigner integration.

Now given those two facts, Danes have a choice here in the 21st Century: Adapt or die economically.

Still want to shout all these pesky foreigners down and throw them out? Your beloved socialistic system will collapse on itself due to its inability to economically sustain itself because there are not enough of you Danes getting educations in the industries your country desperately needs to survive. Yes, there will always be a Denmark. Do you want to become just another marginal Baltic state with a glorious past and a bigger drinking and depression problem than you have now, or keep the standard of living you have now with the help of these damned foreigners?

Pick one - life is not going to be the same either way you choose. Get used to it and stop insulting those who would be your friends. The "muslim problem" is a tiny problem blown out of proportion by racists with self-serving agendas. You are trying to swat a fly with a broad-brush atom bomb, and killing your friends and your future in the process. Danes, get your heads out of the sand and get a sense of perspective.

Famous American cartoon character Pogo with some words of wisdom just as applicable to the Danes: "We have met the enemy and he is us."
tom1980   |2009-08-27 14:54:03
good post mr tomnashdk!

It's time for denmark and the EU to wake up.

You can have all your social benefits but ulitimately companies will be forced to move away from scandinavia and the EU to escape excessive taxation and regulation in order to compete on a global basis.
expatdude  - don't make me laugh   |2009-08-28 01:06:26
The Danish government reminds me of the man who called the police saying that he was taking himself hostage inside his own home and wasn't going to let himself out until the world met his demands. I guess this is just a new demand.

As a highly-talented Westerner who's worked in five EU countries and speaks six languages, I can honestly say that under no circumstances would I even consider taking a (well paid IT/consulting) job in Denmark.

Sweden? Who knows, maybe. At least there I might feel welcome.

How about the Danish Green Card? Did both people who got it bother to show up? No-one with prospects is standing in line waiting to come to Denmark. Policies like these only confirm the stereotypes that Denmark has managed to create for itself (and then wonders why they exist.)
AG   |2009-08-28 08:53:24
JFD: Where did you manage to learn Danish? I was unable to find Danish classes at any of the local universities in my area. I didn't see any notices for private lessons, but I couldn't have afforded it if I had (judging by the fees folks were charging for Arabic and Portuguese). I bought the CD pack and spent hours repeating what the nice lady said. I ended up with some very bad pronunciation habits and trying to figure out what they meant with some of the grammar quizzes was a great education in English, but not Danish. I paid to take a Danish class the first time I came on a student visa. But it took months to get in and if I was only in Denmark for the three month tourist visa, there is no way I could have managed it before I had to leave again. Props to you for managing to learn a language without coming to the country. Not everyone is so fortunate, even if we come from the US.

As for the rest of your comments on my comments, all I can say is: sarcasm is obviously dead.
JFD   |2009-08-28 11:01:56
AG:

Thanks for your note and please accept my apologies for the overly critical and sarcastic tone in my reply. I certainly do wish you the best of succes here in DK and learning one of the world's most difficult languages.

I felt and still feel your pain! I learned Danish in the US predominately three ways. The first two may still be helpful for you here and now & beyond the scope of your normal sprogskole:

The first was this series of Books with CDs:

http://www.amazon.com/Yourself-Danish-Complete-Language-Courses/dp/0071413820

In my opinion, all the other book are too basic for soeone planning to live in DK. The Teach-Yourself series is by far the best I have seen, and I looked at them all.

2. I bought Danish movies on eBay that had both English & Danish subtitles. This was invaluable because it gave me the chance to hear natural, modern Danish and connect the sounds to written words in both language. Articulation in Danish is virtually non-existance, hence the old saying "speaking with a hot potatoe in your mouth", so the lounds combined with written words was just excellent. Plus it was a heck of a lot more fun watching movies to learn than reading a book. Also, it gave me an insight into Danish culture. Festen, I wonder who's Kissing Her Now, Pusher 1, 2 & 3 were the best... particularly Pusher because I can swear wonderfully in Danish now :-)

3. I had my mother-in-law mail me her old Ude og Hjemme magazines so I could read a lot more of modern Danish and common expression not generally taught in the books... the downside of this is that I know more about the royals than I ever want to admit.

Of course I had my Danish wife to help me, and even though she is the greatest woman I have ever known and I love her dearly (which is why I put up with living in this country), she lacked the patience to teach me. It took about 5 years to get to the point where I could exercize basic communicate in Danish before I moved her. It was as much fun as it was frustrating.

Again, best of luck and success to you here in DK.
tom1980   |2009-08-28 16:37:26
If anyone's interested, I perfected my danish by simultaneously ramming a large potato down my throat and strangling myself.

The downside is people always say to me "Are you from Jutland?".
BABS  - that tom1980 is a funny guy.   |2009-08-30 18:31:01
he said:

"If anyone's interested, I perfected my danish by simultaneously ramming a large potato down my throat and strangling myself.

The downside is people always say to me "Are you from Jutland?"."

And it made me laugh.

It's amazing, but the foreigners here who seem the least satisfied are the ones with the best sense of humor and the more glittering talent for words.

I don't know what the connection is.
 

 

 

 

 

Focus on

 

Failing the grade

A lack of international schools, especially those offering the International Baccalaureat...

 

Home sweet home?

Take part in the on-going debate over the quality of life for foreign professionals in De...

 

A gift in a time of crisis

The national government owes it to the rest of the country to promote growth in Greater C...
 



JP International

The Tales of Hans Christian Andersen